DMF Online

10k is a lot, but so is the bonus from being Rich, so that's fine Björn's suggestions sound reasonable to me, but then again since Almighty is wealthy I won't really have to worry.

Regarding the vehicle I looked at the list, and it's going to be a problem to fit everyone at the same time unless we use a really large truck. Maybe we can rent something, or ideally get by with just the jump bike.

Studying the route and positioning strategically along the way also seems like it would be more fun and along the lines of what we were talking about, than just ganging up inside an armored vehicle and hoping for the best. Of course we'll have to wait until we get the details before making any real decisions.

I don't take issue with your decision on the gyroc weapons, but I also won't be purchasing the mini-mekmon. Without the blasts there's a lot better (and coller) things to do with those 20k.

nDervish skrev:I'd prefer that everyone always has to pay for their ammo. It's not a normal lifestyle expense.

I can live with that. I just felt it was pretty fair for someone paying 10 000+ credits as a cost of living not having to worry about "the little things".

nDervish skrev:And regarding that... I was planning to let ammo tracking sit a little longer before going into it, but here's what I'm currently thinking:

Great, I was starting to come up with modifications on Clint's house rule anyways so I welcome this. I am sure we might need to tweak it a little of after actual play but I am confident playing with whatever you come up with Dave.

nDervish skrev:A second, unrelated change: Gyroc weapons do not have a blast template. This is for two reasons:

1. I think it makes them too powerful. In Savage Worlds, area effect attacks completely ignore non-sealed armor. Even if your armor is sealed, they hit against the weakest area without imposing called-shot penalties.
2. The IZ materials make a big deal about gyroc pistols being the standard weapon of most security guards. If they have a Small Burst Template, that means every shot will destroy any valuable equipment within a 3-meter radius of where it hits, possibly also blowing holes in walls/floors/ceilings. If your guards are there to minimize losses to the company, that's highly counterproductive. And don't even think about using one on an intruder who's holding your head researcher hostage...

Makes sense although it's a heavy nerf. Not that I was going to use one so it's all good. Perhaps see what David J/other IZ players think about it on the G+ community or official forums.

You make a very good point and it would be interesting to hear how the developer reasons.


On another note I am working on my char right now and hope to have him finished within the next few hours. One thing that we've mentioned in our discussions but never really made a hard calling on was weapon licenses.

I am also interested to know if there are licenses for heavy armour and other stuff we might lugg around like grenades, short swords and specialised equipment like bugs and plasma cutters....

Also, how would police and the general population react to someone (I am not mentioning any names, let's just say it's a close friend of mine that wants to know...) would walk around in heavy armour. For instance a Justified Response Assault Armour (10 armour + 1d6 reactive armour (how does reactive armour work anyways?)?

I am picturing something like this in my head: http://cghub.com/images/view/130956/

Willard skrev:Regarding the vehicle I looked at the list, and it's going to be a problem to fit everyone at the same time unless we use a really large truck. Maybe we can rent something, or ideally get by with just the jump bike.

I think it's a lot to ask (for someone) to buy a vehicle that fits everyone including the 3,5 meter tall hybrid.

While a larger armoured vehicle is certainly a good investement for the future for now I suggest that each character gets to the rendezvou point by themselves. Hopefully Dave won't use his infamous random tables too much - and even if he does it could be pretty cool if someone occasionally had to fight through a mugging attempt before getting to the mission.

Right now we're just a random group of troubleshooters. Once we get up and running and have a few missions under our belts we might feel like we need a base and vehicles.

I cannot find the price for normal, handthrown grenades.

Still very much a work in progress although the hard stats of the char is pretty much set. It's mainly equipment and cyberware I need to set.


Ryder Lewis
Blue plater (Max from Elysium)/Some sort of vehicle factory worker?

Traits
Agility d6
Smarts d6
Spirit d6
Strength d6
Vigor d6

Skills
Fighting (Ag) d6 (unarmed, short blades)
Lockpicking (Ag) d4 (electronic locks)
Shooting (Ag) d6 (hand guns, submachine guns)
Stealth (Ag) d6
Throwing (Ag) d6 (explosive weapons)
Notice (Sm) d6
Repair (Sm) d6 (electronic devices)
Streetwise (Sm) d6 (street)
Persuasion (Sp) d6 (fast talk)
Hacking (Sm) d6 (data mining)
Taunt (Sm) d4

Derived statistics

Reputation: 0
Street cred: 4 (2+2)
Strain: 0/6
Firewall: 4
Parry: 5
Toughness: 5
Charisma: 0
Pace: 6 +d6
Lifestyle: poor (1000 credits)
Cost of living: 2000 credits
Occupation: bartender, income 1000 + 1d4x100 credits

Hindrances
Debt (major) I am using this hindrance to model both the insurance claim and my poor folks that I need to support, so there is no actual debt.
Shakes (minor): from the accident
Glitched (minor): the corp only paid for second-grade cyberware replacements

Edges
Good street cred +2 (human free edge)
Luck +1 bennie -2 points

Contacts
My pro bono lawyer
My instructor

Motivations
The working class +
Doing an honest day's job +
Corporations -

Equipment
Ceramic switchblade knife
Light pistol - HOSTILE TAKEOVER HT-9 HOLD-OUT PISTOL
Heavy pistol - AGA THUNDERBOLT
Heavy armour - JUSTIFIED RESPONSE ASSAULT ARMOR
Submachinegun - RAVENLOCKE P9D PERSONAL DEFENSE WEAPON

TG-40, TG-7 TEAR GAS (40MM GL/GRENADE)
SM-40/SM-19 SMOKE (40MM/GRENADE)
FLASH BANGS (ALL)
FLASH SUPPRESSOR/SILENCER
TAZ-25/TAZ-40 (40MM GL/25MM GL)
STROBE UPGRADE (FLASHLIGHT)
TARGETING LASER

Willard skrev:Maybe we can rent something, or ideally get by with just the jump bike.

The jump bike's stats list its crew as 1+1, so that's just you and a single passenger. (Or two passengers if you trust someone else to sit at the controls while you pilot it remotely...)

Willard skrev: I don't take issue with your decision on the gyroc weapons, but I also won't be purchasing the mini-mekmon. Without the blasts there's a lot better (and coller) things to do with those 20k.

Can you think of a good buff to give gyrocs that would make them interesting to you again without making it ridiculous for security guards to carry them?

bladerunner_35 skrev: Great, I was starting to come up with modifications on Clint's house rule anyways so I welcome this.

Any that you'd like to share?

bladerunner_35 skrev: Makes sense although it's a heavy nerf. Not that I was going to use one so it's all good. Perhaps see what David J/other IZ players think about it on the G+ community or official forums.

You make a very good point and it would be interesting to hear how the developer reasons.

Good thought. I'll head over to G+ and bring it up there.

bladerunner_35 skrev: One thing that we've mentioned in our discussions but never really made a hard calling on was weapon licenses.

Thanks for the reminder. One of the Mongoose Traveller supplements has rules on weapons licenses (probably Book 1: Mercenary...) and I need to review those so I can adapt them, unless anyone has any good ideas for how to handle weapon licensing. It's not something I've ever actually used before, other than in a very vague "yeah, yeah, your guns are all licensed unless you stole them" sense.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Also, how would police and the general population react to someone (I am not mentioning any names, let's just say it's a close friend of mine that wants to know...) would walk around in heavy armour.

Poorly. Fortunately, there are plenty of fashionable armor options in the Malmart catalog for day-to-day wear when you don't need the heavy armor.

bladerunner_35 skrev: (how does reactive armour work anyways?)?

It's on p.8 of the equipment book. With RA 1d6, when you get hit be an explosive attack, the damage of the attack is reduced by 1d6 and your RA drops to d4. The second explosive hit is reduced by d4 and the RA is exhausted (reduced to 0). If the explosive attack is from a Heavy Weapon, the incoming damage is unaffected, but your RA still fires off and degrades.

bladerunner_35 skrev: While a larger armoured vehicle is certainly a good investement for the future for now I suggest that each character gets to the rendezvou point by themselves.

I wasn't thinking of it being an issue so much for the initial rendezvous as for getting around during the mission. According to google maps, the coastline of the Chicago metroplex (from Gary to Waukegan) is around 60 km. Depending on where you are and where you're going, that makes for a lot of potentially very long walks...

But, yeah, it might make more sense to each have your own vehicles (or know how you get around if you don't have one - bus, taxi, "I never go outside the Loop", whatever) instead of buying a bus big enough for everyone up front.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Hopefully Dave won't use his infamous random tables too much - and even if he does it could be pretty cool if someone occasionally had to fight through a mugging attempt before getting to the mission.

*whistling innocently*

bladerunner_35 skrev:I cannot find the price for normal, handthrown grenades.

I managed to find this in the IZ1 book:

BLACK KNIGHT PERSONAL GRENADES
The perfect gift for your best friend! These handy grenades are color coded for easy use. With a range of choices from smoke to fragmentation, you will be ready for any situation! Our grenades are color coded for easy identification in a fight!
• Not a toy! Keep out of the hands of children!
• Brown: Smoke that blocks line of sight for 1D6 rounds.
• Green: Poison gas that deals 2D6 damage. Disperses after 1D4 rounds.
• Blue: A flash that deals 2D10 damage but cannot cause a result worse than Shaken.
• Red: Fragmentation causes 3D6 damage.
• Area of Effect: Medium Burst Template.
• Range: 5/10/15
• Cost: 1,000 credits per grenade

bladerunner_35 skrev: Reputation: 0

I was wrong about Reputation earlier. It should start at 1 rather than 0. (At 0 or less, you can't use Street Cred to ask for favors.)

bladerunner_35 skrev: Strain: 0/6

No need to calculate max Strain. As far as I can tell, it never actually gets used for anything.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Glitched (minor): the corp only paid for second-grade cyberware replacements

I don't see any actual augments on your character writeup. If you're not buying any upgraded augments, take the appropriate cyberware replacements (probably call it 1 Strain each) as gutterware and we'll call that a Minor Hindrance in itself. Or take augments normally and make them gutterware (which is half the cost of streetware, so you could take up to 10 Strain of gutterware) if you prefer.

Either way, the Glitched Hindrance isn't applicable because I plan to use "prototype augment malfunction chart 2" instead of the "spend a bennie to screw with their augments" system that Glitched is connected to.

nDervish skrev:

bladerunner_35 skrev: Makes sense although it's a heavy nerf. Not that I was going to use one so it's all good. Perhaps see what David J/other IZ players think about it on the G+ community or official forums.

You make a very good point and it would be interesting to hear how the developer reasons.

Good thought. I'll head over to G+ and bring it up there.

While posting my question, it occurred to me to check the Savage Worlds Explorers Edition rules on AoE attacks, since that was the current ruleset when IZ1 was written. Turns out that AoEs didn't have the "goes against weakest armor" characteristic then, so I suspect my point #1 (possibly overpowered) may be due to that change in the SW core rules.

The issue of collateral damage still stands, though, so we'll see what Jarvis has to say about that.

nDervish skrev:BLACK KNIGHT PERSONAL GRENADES
• Cost: 1,000 credits per grenade

That works but isn't the price a little steep. I know grenades of various effect are very useful but 1000 credits. Come on! 500 as a baseline would be ok.

nDervish skrev:BI don't see any actual augments on your character writeup. If you're not buying any upgraded augments, take the appropriate cyberware replacements (probably call it 1 Strain each) as gutterware and we'll call that a Minor Hindrance in itself. Or take augments normally and make them gutterware (which is half the cost of streetware, so you could take up to 10 Strain of gutterware) if you prefer.

Either way, the Glitched Hindrance isn't applicable because I plan to use "prototype augment malfunction chart 2" instead of the "spend a bennie to screw with their augments" system that Glitched is connected to.

I haven't bought any cyberware yet but I will. Your suggestion to drop the hindrance and get gutterware sounds good enough.

bladerunner_35 skrev:

nDervish skrev:BLACK KNIGHT PERSONAL GRENADES
• Cost: 1,000 credits per grenade

That works but isn't the price a little steep. I know grenades of various effect are very useful but 1000 credits. Come on! 500 as a baseline would be ok.

Agreed. I looked for prices in the equipment book's Grenade Munitions section, to see what launched grenades cost, and there weren't any, but I did find the PP-12M Party Popper MIRV Mine, which scatters six grenades and costs 3,000 Cr. Based on that, I think I'd even go a bit lower and call it 250 Cr for a hand-thrown grenade.

I still feel that 500 is a bit step and wouldn't mind if they were 250 but I know how effective they can be - to the point of dictating rules of engagement. At least until we go toe to toe with heavy infantry who pretty much just ignores all grenades.

Seeing as you are a reasonable man I'll leave the final decision to you.

nDervish skrev:The jump bike's stats list its crew as 1+1, so that's just you and a single passenger. (Or two passengers if you trust someone else to sit at the controls while you pilot it remotely...)

If we indulge a little in tactics, that should be enough for the passenger and someone else (while the others are probably better fighters I may not feel comfortable letting them on the bike in the first mission. Even if I'll be driving remotely).

We could scout a few approaches into the loop, find the critical spots and arrange for some form of mischief at these locations. A few drones can be set to patrol and warn for unforeseen trouble, and a few of the PC's are hopefully mobile enough to adapt in time. Ideally we can all spread out and cause distractions just before the bike zooms past. Depending on the parameters we could divide the approach into shorter stretches and re-position ourselves before moving on.

It could be a lot of fun, with lots of opportunities for both careful planning, utter randomness and mad dashes to get in position in time.

nDervish skrev:Can you think of a good buff to give gyrocs that would make them interesting to you again without making it ridiculous for security guards to carry them?

Not on the fly, but that's okay.

I also wanted to talk to you about the possibility of designing my own drones. There is some possibility of adapting them with weapon mounts, and there's the "rack" model that goes a little further, but it seems like there should be more. If you can design golemmechs (which I will do as soon as we can afford to), drones should be a piece of cake. Pick between land, air and sea; speed profile; size and carrying capacity; manipulators; sensors; weapons etc. Is there anything like that floating around?

nDervish skrev:

bladerunner_35 skrev: Great, I was starting to come up with modifications on Clint's house rule anyways so I welcome this.

Any that you'd like to share?

I missed this. I had just started thinking about it. It was nothing more than increasing the number of ammo levels so nothing much really.

nDervish skrev:

bladerunner_35 skrev: One thing that we've mentioned in our discussions but never really made a hard calling on was weapon licenses.

Thanks for the reminder. One of the Mongoose Traveller supplements has rules on weapons licenses (probably Book 1: Mercenary...) and I need to review those so I can adapt them, unless anyone has any good ideas for how to handle weapon licensing. It's not something I've ever actually used before, other than in a very vague "yeah, yeah, your guns are all licensed unless you stole them" sense.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I expect as the baseline. For me anything but the heaviest or most specialised weapons (anything military of course) would come with an automatic license at character creation. After that buying any new weapons would require a new license but this is automatic and costs maybe 5 % of the weapon itself (just throwing a number out there, you don't need to pay any fees at creation) - unless you've got a criminal record or are buying restricted weapons.

Essentially licenses is an in-game mechanic to keep a group of PCs from a) running around with all their heavy weapon down-town and b) buying all the heaviest weapons as soon as they get enough money. For the same reasons heavy armours would also be licensed.

That's my 2 cents.

nDervish skrev:

bladerunner_35 skrev: Also, how would police and the general population react to someone (I am not mentioning any names, let's just say it's a close friend of mine that wants to know...) would walk around in heavy armour.

Poorly. Fortunately, there are plenty of fashionable armor options in the Malmart catalog for day-to-day wear when you don't need the heavy armor.

Define poorly. Questioned and let go if all paperwork is in order? Arrested on sight? I realise it's on a case to case bases. I am just trying to get my bearings.

Would it be right to assume that buying and walking around with the Justified Response Assault Armour would only be something I should do for very special missions (at night)?

bladerunner_35 skrev:Essentially licenses is an in-game mechanic to keep a group of PCs from a) running around with all their heavy weapon down-town and b) buying all the heaviest weapons as soon as they get enough money. For the same reasons heavy armours would also be licensed.

Isn't this largely covered by the (Military) tag? Not sure how it works, but it seems like that's what it's for.

Willard skrev:

bladerunner_35 skrev:Essentially licenses is an in-game mechanic to keep a group of PCs from a) running around with all their heavy weapon down-town and b) buying all the heaviest weapons as soon as they get enough money. For the same reasons heavy armours would also be licensed.

Isn't this largely covered by the (Military) tag? Not sure how it works, but it seems like that's what it's for.

There's a lot of hardware that's not covered by the Military tag. Though this might be one of those things that are only a problem in theory.

bladerunner_35 skrev:There's a lot of hardware that's not covered by the Military tag.

Yeah, looking again I see your point. The really cool weapons are still military though: autocannon, missiles, most energy weapons, maybe a few more. But you're right.

On a related note I'm a little worried about surveillance this far into the future, isn't it everywhere? We may have to play really carefully to avoid committing a lot of more or less serious crimes (just look at that bounty listing) and being caught on tape.

Willard skrev:On a related note I'm a little worried about surveillance this far into the future, isn't it everywhere? We may have to play really carefully to avoid committing a lot of more or less serious crimes (just look at that bounty listing) and being caught on tape.

Yes, absolutely. On the other hand it's just like Gibson said - "The future is already here – it's just not evenly distributed". Meaning it's like it's always been; in good neighbourhoods we need to be careful, in bad neighbourhoods, not so much.

There's also a lot of counter-surveillance tools we can use.

I do agree we need to be careful though, there's always someone watching.

bladerunner_35 skrev:I still feel that 500 is a bit step and wouldn't mind if they were 250 but I know how effective they can be - to the point of dictating rules of engagement. At least until we go toe to toe with heavy infantry who pretty much just ignores all grenades.

Seeing as you are a reasonable man I'll leave the final decision to you.

Well, if that's the way you feel about it, I guess I'm happy to err on the side of caution and let you pay 500 for them.

Willard skrev: I also wanted to talk to you about the possibility of designing my own drones. There is some possibility of adapting them with weapon mounts, and there's the "rack" model that goes a little further, but it seems like there should be more. If you can design golemmechs (which I will do as soon as we can afford to), drones should be a piece of cake. Pick between land, air and sea; speed profile; size and carrying capacity; manipulators; sensors; weapons etc. Is there anything like that floating around?

Although I haven't run any numbers or tried doing any comparisons to standard vehicle/drone stats, I suspect the golemmech design rules should probably work for vehicles in general, including drones, without needing much modification. But I could be wrong.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Yeah, that's pretty much what I expect as the baseline. For me anything but the heaviest or most specialised weapons (anything military of course) would come with an automatic license at character creation. After that buying any new weapons would require a new license...

It might be an actual cultural difference (I don't know how it's handled in Sweden) or it could just be a terminology issue, but I think we're talking about two different things here. In the US (and also in the Traveller rules I mentioned), "licensing" and "registration" are separate issues. Licensing defines what kinds of weapons you're allowed to own, whether you're allowed to carry them, etc. Registration records who owns which weapons. So licensing is a single flat fee paid annually for each class of weapons you're allowed to legally own, regardless of which weapons in that class you might own or how many of them you have, while registration of each individual weapon is free of charge.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Define poorly. Questioned and let go if all paperwork is in order? Arrested on sight? I realise it's on a case to case bases. I am just trying to get my bearings.

Mostly people feeling threatened. Police and security forces would keep a very close eye on you. If they decide they don't like something about you, if they're having a bad day, or if they're just bored and want something to do, they'll probably want to check your papers and might harass you further. Some of them might decide to arrest you even if you're properly licensed, either through their own ignorance or because they think you're creating a threat or disturbance.

(This is basically what happened in Minneapolis when Minnesota started issuing concealed carry permits and some permit-holders chose to carry their handguns openly instead of concealed. Most of the Minneapolis cops knew they couldn't arrest CCW permit holders for open carry, but a lot of them still didn't like it and went out of their way to make that clear.)

bladerunner_35 skrev: Would it be right to assume that buying and walking around with the Justified Response Assault Armour would only be something I should do for very special missions (at night)?

It depends a lot on where you are and what the police presence is like. If you get spotted wearing assault armor in the Gold Coast or Naperville (probably the two nicest/richest neighborhoods in Chicagoland), don't be surprised to find a SWAT team or the equivalent rolling up on you. If you're in the Gary Hellzone or the Aurora Barrens, then the cops won't notice or care even if, by some miracle, there was one there to see you.

Willard skrev: On a related note I'm a little worried about surveillance this far into the future, isn't it everywhere? We may have to play really carefully to avoid committing a lot of more or less serious crimes (just look at that bounty listing) and being caught on tape.

We can play it that way if you want to, but I was planning to rely heavily on the anonymity of crowds. In the IZ fluff, they talk about how you can expect to find streaming video of your last run online before you get home and the Reputation rules hint at the idea that your rep is based in part on the world watching your "secret" missions, yet it's still possible to make a living as a ronin. The only way I can see both things being true is if there's such a vast amount of data out there that cops and corps can't keep up with it all, so it won't be used against you unless they can find enough information by other means to tell them exactly when and where to look.

bladerunner_35 skrev:Perhaps it's time for you to start an page on Obsidian Portal so we can compile our houserules and stuff there Dave?

I've just created the campaign on Obsidian Portal at http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/iz-upgrading and sent invites to Björn and Sebastian's OP accounts. The others can register on OP and send me requests to join the campaign.

I haven't actually added anything yet, but at least it exists now...