DMF Online

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: I added Flash Compensators to my eyes (during char creation before the mission) and I'm not sure if that'll do something bad to me since my strain is now 9 (rather than 8 ). I also changed pistols since frangible ammo sucks and yes, I did buy detonators.
Are those updates on OP? If not, what new pistol and how many of everything?

I have updated my char on OP to the best of my abilities. I am still not entirerly familiar with all the stats you add to the weapons so you might want to double check I got everything right. Somehow I managed to add an underline in the middle of the weapons description but I haven't found exactly where or why.

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: Additionally I think it's a bit of a stretch to count my switchblade and hold-out pistol as one significant item each. More like 0.5 SI each. They are designed to be carried as defense/backup weapons. The pistol weighs 2 lbs and the knife has a weight of 1 (I assume that the weights in SWD is also in pounds).
Fair enough. Call it 1 SI total for either or both. (Yeah, I know they're both under 5 lbs, so should round to 0 SI, but it just doesn't feel right to me for a weapon to be completely encumbrance-free.)

I agree totally. Weapons and essential gear should always have some weight. I really liked that I had to pick and choose from my weapons and which grenades I wanted to bring to keep from being encumbered.

However I am starting to think that maybe we need to fine tune the SI mechanics a little to add a tad more grain. So far I've thought about doubling the carrying limit and dividing the ranges for SI to 5 lbs.

Or maybe just allow smaller and lighter gear to count as 0.5 SI is easier.

There's also the backpack that I haven't really considered all that much and that helps out a lot with carrying limits. I like being forced to make a tactical choice about which weapons to keep ready and which items to leave home or in the backpack.

nDervish skrev:So, a successful first run and neither you nor your employer betrayed each other. A good start!

We didn't really have time for any kind of epilogue, but CC (formerly known as "Donut") was met at the CEL embassy gate by security guards who took Connie off his hands and escorted her inside. Everyone was 800 Cr richer by the time they got home. 3 XP all around.

How did you guys think it went? Was there anything in particular that you'd like to see more or less of as we continue?

I think it was perfectly fine for a first op. Everyone was chomping at the bits to get started and we were all eager to get a finished mission beneath our belt.

However, while I enjoy the strategical planning and tactical combat a lot I really would prefer a bit more "roleplay". Especially more descriptions to make the world come a live. I realise I might be in a minority here but it was a little to spartan for my tastes. Nothing long winded but some added spice and colour, not only by you Dave (although you carry the heavier burden to make the world come alive) but also from us.

A short description on how a character is leaning casually against the wall during a tense negotiation or is following the whole thing with intensity. I did not mind at all when Paladin tried to negotiatie but it feelt a little like the whole world stopped in its track to watch.

Next time it would be better if everyone get's "one action/move". So Paladin is talking to the biker guy, Ryder is slowly preparing a grenade, Bullseye is intimidating some close by mook and so on.

I know it's just to speak up and say what my character does but I really would prefer if we structured it a little bit more than that.

This would slow the game down and we might not be able to assume to finish one mission per session but that's fine by me. It certainly was a too rushed at the end.

I also want to add that I think it was great, even realistic that everyone showed restraint and didn't go for the kill as soon as possible.

nDervish skrev:And the other two major questions:

1) Is next Monday still good for the next session?

2) In-game, when do you want to make your next run? I know I was talking earlier about leaving a month between adventures, but now I'm feeling like it might work better to do them closer together, both to keep a better flow of world events and because I seem to recall that some of you can't reliably meet your cost of living with only your day-job income...

I should be able to make next monday. Might not have a whole lot of time joining in the discussion but Ryder is in need of cash so he'll be up for anything that's not "evil".

I don't think we need to set a standard time between missions. Let the story decide. With that said a couple of missions per month should be doable in-game.

nDervish skrev:Regarding Obsidian Portal, I've rediscovered how poorly-integrated the "Characters" tab is with the rest of the site, so I would suggest that we use plain wiki pages instead of the "Characters" section, at least for NPCs.

The issue is that, if Connie Acosta (just to pick the first NPC who comes to mind) is on a wiki page, she can be linked to from just about anywhere by putting [[Connie Acosta]] into a page and, if the Connie Acosta page hasn't been created yet, it will show up as a red link that you can click to create the page.

If, on the other hand, she's in the "Characters" section, you link to her with [[:connie-acosta]]. If the character page exists, then it will pull her name from it, display "Connie Acosta" in the page when you view it, and everything is happy. If the character page doesn't exist, however, the page will display "Content Not Found: connie-acosta" and no link to create her.

Using wiki pages allows you to put links to anything and everything you mention without having to worry about whether the pages have been created yet or not and, when they are created, the links will immediately start working. Using Character (and Item, for that matter) pages only allows you to link to things that are already there, so you can't put in links in advance, which makes it much harder to keep everything richly cross-linked.

I am not sure I see the big deal but don't care that much either way I guess.

bladerunner_35 skrev: I have updated my char on OP to the best of my abilities.

OK, I'll update my version from there and double-check the money.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Somehow I managed to add an underline in the middle of the weapons description but I haven't found exactly where or why.

When the OP developers decided on a markup language for their gaming, they picked one which uses "+text+" to indicate that "text" should be underlined. Because, you know, no gamer would ever write something like "+1 sword, +3 vs. dragons" or "+2 AP... Targeting laser (+1 Shooting)"...

It's not even very predictable about when it will interpret a plus to indicate underlining and when it won't, so I usually have to do a bit of trial-and-error with making sure there are spaces before and after each + that starts an underlined section. (Changing "+2" to "+ 2", etc.)

bladerunner_35 skrev: However I am starting to think that maybe we need to fine tune the SI mechanics a little to add a tad more grain. So far I've thought about doubling the carrying limit and dividing the ranges for SI to 5 lbs.

Where exactly are you seeing problems? Granted, the system is pretty coarse, but that's kind of the point - keeping all the numbers small enough that everyone at the table can instantly figure them out in their head without having to think about it.

bladerunner_35 skrev: There's also the backpack that I haven't really considered all that much and that helps out a lot with carrying limits. I like being forced to make a tactical choice about which weapons to keep ready and which items to leave home or in the backpack.

Yep, that's the idea.

I'd actually also like to have a tactical choice about whether to bring a backpack at all, but there aren't currently any penalties in place for having one, aside from the possibility of people looking at you on the street like you're weird. Adding an SI or two to Active inventory if you don't have a pack (or perhaps reducing it if you do - Zadmar's original SI system in Savage Armoury only gives you a capacity of half your Strength die) or Stealth penalties for having a pack seem like the obvious options, but I can't say I'm particularly happy with either of them.

Also on this general topic, I've picked up a pack of index cards and plan to, at some point, copy the stats from everyone's equipment onto cards so that we can easily keep track of who's carrying what - just have separate stacks of cards for ready/pack/in the car/at home/whatever, ammo chips can be stacked on the weapon's card, etc. For the cards I've made so far, the top line has the name of the item and how many SI it takes up, which makes for very easy encumbrance tracking, too.

bladerunner_35 skrev:However, while I enjoy the strategical planning and tactical combat a lot I really would prefer a bit more "roleplay". Especially more descriptions to make the world come a live. I realise I might be in a minority here but it was a little to spartan for my tastes. Nothing long winded but some added spice and colour, not only by you Dave (although you carry the heavier burden to make the world come alive) but also from us.

A short description on how a character is leaning casually against the wall during a tense negotiation or is following the whole thing with intensity. I did not mind at all when Paladin tried to negotiatie but it feelt a little like the whole world stopped in its track to watch.

Next time it would be better if everyone get's "one action/move". So Paladin is talking to the biker guy, Ryder is slowly preparing a grenade, Bullseye is intimidating some close by mook and so on.

I agree, we can and should do better at this. While it slows down each scene, the missions can easily be adjusted to just contain fewer scenes. We don't need three combat encounters per evening. I'd be OK with just one.

nDervish skrev:Where exactly are you seeing problems? Granted, the system is pretty coarse, but that's kind of the point - keeping all the numbers small enough that everyone at the table can instantly figure them out in their head without having to think about it.

The problem seems to be rounding up, how many zeroes can you have before they sum to one? You say that a pistol not taking any encumbrance feels wrong, but how bad is it actually? If someone really wants to walk around with 20 pistols and 500 grenades, what's the big deal? It won't make them more powerful, for that you need "larger" weapons and armor. If we still want a limit I'd vote for it being closer to five or ten than one or two. Or we could just track weight. By now that doesn't seem a whole lot more complicated.

bladerunner_35 skrev:I am not sure I see the big deal but don't care that much either way I guess.

It matters when you write a lot of wiki-articles, which I was doing when he said it. Otherwise no, it certainly isn't.

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: I have updated my char on OP to the best of my abilities.
OK, I'll update my version from there and double-check the money.

If it'll help I can send you my shopping list I made in Excel tomorrow morning?

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: Somehow I managed to add an underline in the middle of the weapons description but I haven't found exactly where or why.
When the OP developers decided on a markup language for their gaming, they picked one which uses "+text+" to indicate that "text" should be underlined. Because, you know, no gamer would ever write something like "+1 sword, +3 vs. dragons" or "+2 AP... Targeting laser (+1 Shooting)"...

It's not even very predictable about when it will interpret a plus to indicate underlining and when it won't, so I usually have to do a bit of trial-and-error with making sure there are spaces before and after each + that starts an underlined section. (Changing "+2" to "+ 2", etc.)

lol, thanks for the explanation

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: However I am starting to think that maybe we need to fine tune the SI mechanics a little to add a tad more grain. So far I've thought about doubling the carrying limit and dividing the ranges for SI to 5 lbs.
Where exactly are you seeing problems? Granted, the system is pretty coarse, but that's kind of the point - keeping all the numbers small enough that everyone at the table can instantly figure them out in their head without having to think about it.

Mostly in the smaller and lighter weapons and eqipment which while certainly not weightless shouldn't really encumber a character all that much. I can appreciate that for the sake of game balance we need a system that disallows carrying around an arsenal of light weapons (and also like we mentioned SI means more than pure weight). I think the problem disappears if we keep the system as is but add increments of 0.5. Even then we need to adress items like grenades.

Is it ok with you if we establish that 5 normal grenades (or other tactical gear of similar weight and proportions) are considered 1 SI? That would mean that my switchblade counts as 0.2 SI while the hold-out pistol or a combat blade would be 0.5 and a normal pistol or machete would be 1 SI. After calculating carried SI round up.

Willard skrev:The problem seems to be rounding up, how many zeroes can you have before they sum to one? You say that a pistol not taking any encumbrance feels wrong, but how bad is it actually? If someone really wants to walk around with 20 pistols and 500 grenades, what's the big deal? It won't make them more powerful, for that you need "larger" weapons and armor. If we still want a limit I'd vote for it being closer to five or ten than one or two. Or we could just track weight. By now that doesn't seem a whole lot more complicated.

I am reluctant to use actual weight per original Savage Worlds Deluxe. I would be willing to give it a try but have a feeling it will be to finely grained and only add complexity for very little value. Even if you do not think my suggestions work we should find a happy medium.

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: There's also the backpack that I haven't really considered all that much and that helps out a lot with carrying limits. I like being forced to make a tactical choice about which weapons to keep ready and which items to leave home or in the backpack.
Yep, that's the idea.

I'd actually also like to have a tactical choice about whether to bring a backpack at all, but there aren't currently any penalties in place for having one, aside from the possibility of people looking at you on the street like you're weird. Adding an SI or two to Active inventory if you don't have a pack (or perhaps reducing it if you do - Zadmar's original SI system in Savage Armoury only gives you a capacity of half your Strength die) or Stealth penalties for having a pack seem like the obvious options, but I can't say I'm particularly happy with either of them.

I certainly would not mind if we decide that one "item with carrying capacity" takes up one SI. Actually I think that's a pretty good idea.

nDervish skrev:Also on this general topic, I've picked up a pack of index cards and plan to, at some point, copy the stats from everyone's equipment onto cards so that we can easily keep track of who's carrying what - just have separate stacks of cards for ready/pack/in the car/at home/whatever, ammo chips can be stacked on the weapon's card, etc. For the cards I've made so far, the top line has the name of the item and how many SI it takes up, which makes for very easy encumbrance tracking, too.

Ha, that's funny. I've been planning to do something like that for my own equipment once we've played for a bit. Excellent idea!

On that note. I think we should add a list of choice items to the SI part of OP: http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/ ... nce-system

I'll make a draft and you can adjust it.

Willard skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev:However, while I enjoy the strategical planning and tactical combat a lot I really would prefer a bit more "roleplay". Especially more descriptions to make the world come a live. I realise I might be in a minority here but it was a little to spartan for my tastes. Nothing long winded but some added spice and colour, not only by you Dave (although you carry the heavier burden to make the world come alive) but also from us.

A short description on how a character is leaning casually against the wall during a tense negotiation or is following the whole thing with intensity. I did not mind at all when Paladin tried to negotiatie but it feelt a little like the whole world stopped in its track to watch.

Next time it would be better if everyone get's "one action/move". So Paladin is talking to the biker guy, Ryder is slowly preparing a grenade, Bullseye is intimidating some close by mook and so on.
I agree, we can and should do better at this. While it slows down each scene, the missions can easily be adjusted to just contain fewer scenes. We don't need three combat encounters per evening. I'd be OK with just one.

Cool. Also I think we will be able to speed up combat (and really any roll) in a while when everyone gets a feel for the system. I also think it would be perfectly fine if we weren't given "all the time in the world" to think about which combat actions to use.

While our TAPs allow instant and soundless communication that we can and should use to full extent there's only so much we can plan in the middle of a combat.

nDervish skrev:
Willard skrev:Yeah, I'd like to avoid the manual updates. Do you know how that would work? I haven't tagged anything yet, but "character" "equipment" "faction" etc would be easy enough to apply. Do you have to search for them, or can you make a wiki page that automatically lists the tagged objects?
On any of the wiki pages (but not the home page, because that has its own sidebar), there's a block showing the current page's tags along with a space to add tags.

The next box below that has a link to "Show All" and then "Filter By Tag", with links for each existing tag. Any of those links will show all matching pages, with a list for wiki pages first and then a separate list for adventure log posts. Each list is sorted in the order that the pages were created, which I consider a questionable design decision, but that's how it works, so...

As far as I've been able to determine, there's no way to get automatically-generated lists that look nicer or give more control over how they're presented.

Is it worth the effort to make a wikipage describing which basic tags we are using and the definition (how/when)? Or are they all self explanatory?

nDervish skrev:
Willard skrev:I'd be up for an earlier game actually. My dog is away for the week (that's what this train ride is about), so I don't really need to be at home as much. Thursday or Sunday maybe?
I don't think I can make it earlier. FFF is showing the live-action Rurouni Kenshin movie Thursday night, then there's a rollspelshelg on Friday/Saturday (https://www.facebook.com/events/541535462583287/) that I want to check out and I expect to be recovering from that on Sunday...

Keep an eye out for good roleplayers that might be interested in joining DMF and or our campaign.

Willard skrev:Monday it is then.

I sort of got the hang of pictures in the wiki. Now I'm inclined to have a really fancy party and invite all of Chicago's elite, just so I can add characters with beautiful pictures. It took a while, but now the Pinterest bug has really bitten me.

I really like Pinterest too. What's your nick there? Do you think we should create a board for our campaign?

Willard skrev:You also asked what we liked and didn't, and I guess I have a few thoughts on that.

First, perhaps taking the words out of Sebastian's mouth, I'm glad that we/he could actually try to talk in a lot of situations.

What we could have done is get to the rolls a little more quickly: once you've got the gist it's either going to work or it isn't, and just chatting back and forth gets tedious for everyone else. In other situations of course it's appropriate to elaborate on the arguments, add some flourishes and what not.

And that's basically the second point on this note: it'd be great if we could be in positions where talking actually is reasonable and has a good chance of working.

I may be going out on a limb here, but personally I don't think regular combat is all that interesting. We could try to find some more situations where that doesn't have to be the solution (intimidating those gangbangers was a surprising twist into this, that was neat).

With the exception that I enjoy combats (tactical combats with meaning mind you, not just chipping away at another monster) I just wanted to say that I agree with CW.

BUT I felt that Paladin's +8 bonus to charisma became a reason for her/us to try to talk our way out of every situation. There's a thread or two discussing very high charisma characters on the official forums and while I do not really think it's game breaking it did during the encounter with the bikers felt contrived. Even though the fight mano a mano with Bullseye and the biker karate-kid was cool.

Willard skrev:The chase mechanics were a first for me. In a way it felt strange that most people couldn't do anything for most of the time, and frustrating how much depended on the cards you were given. On the other hand the rounds go a lot faster when you can skip a bunch of the participants. Next time we do it it'll probably move along even faster, and might even be faster than a regular combat. So I'm up for trying that again, even if it did feel a little strange.

For the record I think it's perfectly cool to be on the sideline when other characters get their chance to shine, like Almight during a chase scene or Paladin during a negotiation. Just as long as I get my chance to shine too - not sure exactly what I should do to shine yet tho....

nDervish skrev:Characters

I've gone back through the last several pages of the thread and built what I think is the final version of Almighty, Bullseye, Paladin, and Ryder, then updated them all on OP. Please check them there to verify that they match your latest version. I also added 3 XP and 800 Cr to everyone from last night.

Ryder Lewis:

For the ammo types that you bought 50 of, I increased them to 100 rounds to make it an even 5 ammo tokens

I assumed that you are not taking any medications for your Shakes, since tending bar doesn't cover the bills even without that extra expense

You forgot to buy a detonator for your Gelnite charge

How many ammo tokens did you consume for your SMG last night? I think it was 4 or 5, but I'm not certain.

I I already bought all my ammo in increments of 20 as per your earlier suggestion. Again probably a case of me not posting the latest updates.

No, I completely overlooked that and no, I couldn't afford the medicine even if I wanted to.

I do not remember so let's say 5.

I think that's it and I can stop spamming now. If I did miss something I need to adress let me know.

bladerunner_35 skrev:I really like Pinterest too. What's your nick there? Do you think we should create a board for our campaign?

I think I just clicked to follow you, and you should get a notice about that. We could totally do that. A lot of what I got stuck on probably doesn't fit very well with the cyberpunk aesthetic, but there's always more stuff out there. Yesterday evening I may have burned myself out a little, just mindlessly browsing thousands upon thousands for hours on end. Addictive but not constructive. Oh well.

bladerunner_35 skrev:Is it worth the effort to make a wikipage describing which basic tags we are using and the definition (how/when)? Or are they all self explanatory?

So far it's very basic, and we should probably try to keep it that way. The tags are off on the right side. The thing you may want to look out for is the distinction between "area" and "place". Later we may also need to switch what's now on "area" to "neighborhood", as we find areas that are not 'hoods.

bladerunner_35 skrev:Also, from my calculation I should have 2 720 cr left after all equipment and cyber was paid. I am not sure where you came up with 1 100. Are they the money from the mission?

Here's what I've got, based on your current character data from OP:

Kod: Markera allt

Ceramic Switchblade Knife                         260
Hostile Takeover HT-9 Holdout Pistol              800
        5 ammo                                     40 x 5
Foley Arms Watchdog Pistol                      1,000
        5 ammo                                    200 x 5
Ravenlocke P9D Personal Defense Weapon          2,000
        Targeting laser                           150
        Suppressor                                200
        Flashlight                                 50
        25 ammo                                   100 x 25
Ravenlocke Patrol Armor                         3,500
Ravenlocke Raid Balaklava                       1,500
Ravenlocke Chameleon Cloak                      2,500
Ravenlocke Justified Response Assault Armor    37,000
1 x Tear Gas grenade                              250 x 2 (used 1)
3 x Smoke grenade                                 250 x 3
2 x Hot Smoke grenade                             500 x 2
3 x Flashbang grenade                             250 x 3
1 x BlasteX Gelnite charge                        350
2 x Detonator (Timed)                              25 x 2
Temanda Iron Tornado motorcycle                 3,000

Unless I made an error while punching it in on my calculator, that adds up to 59,060 Cr spent. 60k starting + 800 from Monday's run - 59,060 = 1,740 Cr. Note that I assumed the numbers you listed on OP are how many you originally bought, not how many are left after you used 1 tear gas grenade and (I don't remember how many) SMG ammo tokens in the alley fight.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Especially more descriptions to make the world come a live. I realise I might be in a minority here but it was a little to spartan for my tastes. Nothing long winded but some added spice and colour, not only by you Dave (although you carry the heavier burden to make the world come alive) but also from us.

I'm sure you know by now that that's not something I'm terribly used to doing, so feel free to either ask questions to remind me or to interject your own details.

bladerunner_35 skrev:It certainly was a too rushed at the end.

Willard skrev:We don't need three combat encounters per evening. I'd be OK with just one.

Agreed on both points. I actually hadn't planned for three combats on Monday, but I'd forgotten to have the gangers say anything directly about who their hostage was, so I added in the bounty hunters at the last minute so that you could have the "Do we escort her to safety or turn her in for the bounty?" conversation. Unfortunately, I overestimated the remaining time when I did so.

bladerunner_35 skrev: I also want to add that I think it was great, even realistic that everyone showed restraint and didn't go for the kill as soon as possible.

Agreed, although I would also add "surprising" to that list of adjectives.

bladerunner_35 skrev:
Willard skrev:Or we could just track weight. By now that doesn't seem a whole lot more complicated.
I am reluctant to use actual weight per original Savage Worlds Deluxe. I would be willing to give it a try but have a feeling it will be to finely grained and only add complexity for very little value.

I'm with Björn on this. With SI and index cards, characters can swap their gear around and know at a glance what their encumbrance situation is. With pound-weights, it's not immediately evident how encumbered you are by your 20 lb patrol armor + 8 lb chameleon cloak + 2 lb holdout pistol + 2 spare magazines @ 1 lb each + 6 lb heavy pistol + 2 spare magazines @ 1 lb each + 6 lb SMG + 5 magazines @ 2 lb each +... Even if you can quickly do it in your head, you still have to stop and consciously add it up.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Is it ok with you if we establish that 5 normal grenades (or other tactical gear of similar weight and proportions) are considered 1 SI? That would mean that my switchblade counts as 0.2 SI while the hold-out pistol or a combat blade would be 0.5 and a normal pistol or machete would be 1 SI. After calculating carried SI round up.

Works for me. The 1 SI per 5 is already established for both grenades and ammo tokens, so I don't see any reason not to use it for small items more generally. I would, however, favor rounding up the 1/5 items and 1/2 items separately in order to keep things as "at a glance" as possible, even though it means that one grenade plus one ammo token (2/5, round up to 1) plus one holdout pistol (1/2, round up to one) add up to 2 SI instead of 1.

bladerunner_35 skrev: On that note. I think we should add a list of choice items to the SI part of OP:

I don't get what you mean by "choice items". Or should I just wait for you to finish your draft, then I can look at that to find out?

bladerunner_35 skrev: Is it worth the effort to make a wikipage describing which basic tags we are using and the definition (how/when)? Or are they all self explanatory?

Certainly could, but I try to keep them self-explanatory. Take a look at the list of tags in the sidebar to see whether it's working or not... (CFP = Chicago Free Press, but the rest should be obvious, I'd hope.)

bladerunner_35 skrev:
nDervish skrev:there's a rollspelshelg on Friday/Saturday
Keep an eye out for good roleplayers that might be interested in joining DMF and or our campaign.

I wish that it had been scheduled a couple weeks later, so that I'd have had enough time to get used to Interface Zero that I could run a game or two there in our Chicago and maybe get some players that way, or at least be able to put some articles in the Free Press that are based on another group's play.

bladerunner_35 skrev: BUT I felt that Paladin's +8 bonus to charisma became a reason for her/us to try to talk our way out of every situation. There's a thread or two discussing very high charisma characters on the official forums and while I do not really think it's game breaking it did during the encounter with the bikers felt contrived.

I feel like I'm asking this constantly this week, but... Can you be more specific about what seemed contrived about it to you?

My current approach to dealing with the Charisma monster is that SW's Persuasion isn't a "make people do what I want" skill, but rather a "make people like me" skill and, in that particular encounter, it doesn't matter how much a professional bounty hunter might like you, he's not going to just walk away from a 30,000 Cr bounty.

I'll run some searches on the official forum tomorrow to see if I can find any other ideas for handling it more smoothly. Do you have any specific threads that have struck you as particularly good?

bladerunner_35 skrev: Even though the fight mano a mano with Bullseye and the biker karate-kid was cool.

Yeah, but it ended disappointingly abruptly...

bladerunner_35 skrev: Just as long as I get my chance to shine too - not sure exactly what I should do to shine yet tho....

For all your talk about Ryder being just another average blue plater, he seems to be the group's resident spec ops trooper.

bladerunner_35 skrev: I do not remember so let's say 5.

OK. 20 SMG ammo tokens remaining, then.

Willard skrev:Yesterday evening I may have burned myself out a little, just mindlessly browsing thousands upon thousands for hours on end. Addictive but not constructive. Oh well.

That's the main thing I keep hearing about pinterest, which is one of the primary reasons why I haven't tried it.

Willard skrev:The thing you may want to look out for is the distinction between "area" and "place". Later we may also need to switch what's now on "area" to "neighborhood", as we find areas that are not 'hoods.

Keep in mind that any page can (and many should) have multiple tags. In general, I would consider "area" (or "neighborhood") to be a kind of "place", so I would give the "place" tag to pretty much every "area"/"neighborhood".

Hi guys,
Jeroen here

I have much enjoyed mondays session and if you'll still have me I am on board

I have in the mean time read up on the savage worlds and IZ rules and now I think I am ready to start working on the creation of my own character...

Dave, do you have some time anywhere before monday (including just showing up earlier so I could create my character with someone who has to give the necessary permissions and licenses and such?

jeronimooo skrev:I have much enjoyed mondays session and if you'll still have me I am on board
I have in the mean time read up on the savage worlds and IZ rules and now I think I am ready to start working on the creation of my own character...

Good to hear!

jeronimooo skrev:Dave, do you have some time anywhere before monday (including just showing up earlier so I could create my character with someone who has to give the necessary permissions and licenses and such?

So, erm, yeah... About Monday...

I just checked to verify what time FFF is showing Kenshin tonight and it turns out I misremembered the schedule. They're actually showing it Monday night. Can we reschedule the next session for Tuesday instead?

Aside from that, though, yes, I can show up early on whichever day to go over character creation with you, probably around 16 or a little later.

Tuesday works

Can't make it tuesday so I'll sit this one out. No worries, have fun!

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev:Also, from my calculation I should have 2 720 cr left after all equipment and cyber was paid. I am not sure where you came up with 1 100. Are they the money from the mission?
Unless I made an error while punching it in on my calculator, that adds up to 59,060 Cr spent. 60k starting + 800 from Monday's run - 59,060 = 1,740 Cr. Note that I assumed the numbers you listed on OP are how many you originally bought, not how many are left after you used 1 tear gas grenade and (I don't remember how many) SMG ammo tokens in the alley fight.

No errors on your part. I removed the flashlight (no point since I removed the strobe upgrade and have lo-vis eyes) and balaclava (comes with the Justified Respones armour). This list is all the final purchases before the first mission:

Kod: Markera allt

Funds left	$2 720,00 	
		
Weapons	-$11 280,00 	
Ceramic switchblade	-$260,00 	
Hostile Takeover hold-out pistol	-$800,00 	
 - 9mm, 60 	-$120,00 	5 ammo = 10 credits, 20 ammo = 40 credits
Watchdog Pistol heavy pistol	-$1 000,00 	
 - 10mm ACX, 60	-$600,00 	5 ammo = 50 credits, 20 ammo = 200 credits
 - Targeting laser	-$150,00 	
P9D Personal defense weapon submachine gun	-$2 000,00 	
 - 5.7mm DC, 1000	-$2 000,00 	5 ammo = 10 credits, 20 ammo = 40 credits, 200 ammo = 400 credits
 - Silencer	-$200,00 	
 - Targeting laser	-$150,00 	
		
Tear gas grenade x3	-$750,00 	
Smoke grenade x3	-$750,00 	
Hot smoke grenade x2	-$1 000,00 	
Flash bang grenade x3	-$750,00 	
		
Blastex Gelnite x2	-$700,00 	
Detonator timed x2	-$50,00 	
		
Vehicles	-$3 000,00 	
Temanda Iron Tornadon (knock-off Steel Wind)	-$3 000,00 	
		
Armour	-$43 000,00 	
Chameleon cloak	-$2 500,00 	
Patrol armour	-$3 500,00 	
Justified response	-$37 000,00 	(includes balaclava and multi-optic combat helmet)

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: Especially more descriptions to make the world come a live. I realise I might be in a minority here but it was a little to spartan for my tastes. Nothing long winded but some added spice and colour, not only by you Dave (although you carry the heavier burden to make the world come alive) but also from us.
I'm sure you know by now that that's not something I'm terribly used to doing, so feel free to either ask questions to remind me or to interject your own details.

Absolutely. I think it is important to view roleplaying as a collaborative experience. The GM should never serve the players while they sit back and enjoy the ride. Everyone shares responsibility to create a living breathing and interesting world.

I just want to make sure that I'm not the only one interested in more description and detail before I start to go all moody and emo with the rain pouring down from the dark sky, drops of water mingling on Ryder's face. Almost making it look like he's crying while he calmly executes the last resisting bounty hunter with an efficient burst from his P9 submachinegun. The smoke mingling with the rain as the sound of the shells hitting the wet concrete fades away and the sound of the wounded rushes in to fill the emptiness like water in the print of a foot on some far away beach when the waves comes crashing back...

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: Is it ok with you if we establish that 5 normal grenades (or other tactical gear of similar weight and proportions) are considered 1 SI? That would mean that my switchblade counts as 0.2 SI while the hold-out pistol or a combat blade would be 0.5 and a normal pistol or machete would be 1 SI. After calculating carried SI round up.
Works for me. The 1 SI per 5 is already established for both grenades and ammo tokens, so I don't see any reason not to use it for small items more generally. I would, however, favor rounding up the 1/5 items and 1/2 items separately in order to keep things as "at a glance" as possible, even though it means that one grenade plus one ammo token (2/5, round up to 1) plus one holdout pistol (1/2, round up to one) add up to 2 SI instead of 1.

I am sorry but that makes no sense to me. The only thing that will add is that everyone makes sure to stock up on extra grenades and what not so as not to loose space. Exactly what do you mean by "at a glance"?

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev:
nDervish skrev:there's a rollspelshelg on Friday/Saturday
Keep an eye out for good roleplayers that might be interested in joining DMF and or our campaign.
I wish that it had been scheduled a couple weeks later, so that I'd have had enough time to get used to Interface Zero that I could run a game or two there in our Chicago and maybe get some players that way, or at least be able to put some articles in the Free Press that are based on another group's play.

Just offer to run the mission we played this monday with archetypes and after the mission tell the players that they are now part of a living evolving world!

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: BUT I felt that Paladin's +8 bonus to charisma became a reason for her/us to try to talk our way out of every situation. There's a thread or two discussing very high charisma characters on the official forums and while I do not really think it's game breaking it did during the encounter with the bikers felt contrived.
I feel like I'm asking this constantly this week, but... Can you be more specific about what seemed contrived about it to you?

My current approach to dealing with the Charisma monster is that SW's Persuasion isn't a "make people do what I want" skill, but rather a "make people like me" skill and, in that particular encounter, it doesn't matter how much a professional bounty hunter might like you, he's not going to just walk away from a 30,000 Cr bounty.

I'll run some searches on the official forum tomorrow to see if I can find any other ideas for handling it more smoothly. Do you have any specific threads that have struck you as particularly good?

It's a little hard to pin point but generally just that the negotiations (or whatever) dragged on longer, or felt like it anyways, than they had reason to. Anyways, your approach seems fine. I couldn't find any of the threads I mentioned btw.

And I did feel like Paladin's pleading to not commit to violence added a certain nerve to the combat.

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: Even though the fight mano a mano with Bullseye and the biker karate-kid was cool.
Yeah, but it ended disappointingly abruptly...

I thought it was well cool how the little guy jumped and chopped and hopped only to go down with one blow once Bullseye landed his big fist in his small face.

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: Just as long as I get my chance to shine too - not sure exactly what I should do to shine yet tho....
For all your talk about Ryder being just another average blue plater, he seems to be the group's resident spec ops trooper.

Oh Dave, I am sure you say that to all the boys!

nDervish skrev:
bladerunner_35 skrev: I do not remember so let's say 5.
OK. 20 SMG ammo tokens remaining, then.

By my calculations, and I freely admit that I find it a little confusing to go back and fort between actual rounds and ammo, I should have 45 tokens or 900 rounds left (1000 rounds purchased equals 10 full clips, one clip being 5 tokens equals 50 tokens minus the five used during the op (unless the weapon comes with one full clip at purchase?)).

jeronimooo skrev:Hi guys,
Jeroen here

I have much enjoyed mondays session and if you'll still have me I am on board
I have in the mean time read up on the savage worlds and IZ rules and now I think I am ready to start working on the creation of my own character...

Dave, do you have some time anywhere before monday (including just showing up earlier so I could create my character with someone who has to give the necessary permissions and licenses and such?

Welcome aboard!

I realise there's a lot of pages in this thread but we've put some work into discussing the base premise/social contract/theme of the campaign earlier in the thread. If you've got the time I'd appreciate if you would check it out. If you end up with any questions I am sure the guys can answer them on tuesday.

Edit: I just realised that with the campaign being open to anyone we should probably have a page somewhere on OP where we talk about this. I'll see if I can't fix that sometime during the weekend or next week.

bladerunner_35 skrev: No errors on your part. I removed the flashlight (no point since I removed the strobe upgrade and have lo-vis eyes) and balaclava (comes with the Justified Respones armour). This list is all the final purchases before the first mission:

OK, I'll update my version accordingly.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Exactly what do you mean by "at a glance"?

The idea (or ideal...) that anyone should be able to look at the table in front of them and see three index cards saying "2 SI, 1 SI, 1 SI", a couple small stacks of chips, and instantly know "I'm carrying 6 SI" without having to think or calculate.

I believe that this would be easier to achieve if there are some kinds of chips that can be stacked a maximum of 5 high and others that are limited to 2 high and the two types can't be mixed in a single stack, but I could be wrong about that.

You're right that allowing fractional SI items means that people will be encouraged to metagame their loadouts to take advantage of how rounding works (no matter how rounding is done), but I don't see a clear solution for that (if it even is truly a problem).

bladerunner_35 skrev: It's a little hard to pin point but generally just that the negotiations (or whatever) dragged on longer, or felt like it anyways, than they had reason to.

OK. Have to keep an eye out for that in the future, then.

bladerunner_35 skrev: By my calculations, and I freely admit that I find it a little confusing to go back and fort between actual rounds and ammo,

Yeah, I have to stop and think about that every time, too. I'm seriously considering raising the cost of ammo tokens to the equivalent of 25 rounds instead of 20, since that will play nicer with the IZ books tending to list ammo cost in batches of 50 rounds - the listed cost would then get you an even 2 tokens instead of 2.5.

Any objections or other thoughts on that? If it were changed, it would only be for future ammo purchases; I wouldn't make it retroactive, so your current ammo supplies are safe.

bladerunner_35 skrev: I should have 45 tokens or 900 rounds left (1000 rounds purchased equals 10 full clips, one clip being 5 tokens equals 50 tokens minus the five used during the op (unless the weapon comes with one full clip at purchase?)).

OK, my mistake. I only had you down as having bought 25 tokens rather than 50.

However... I just double-checked the SMG ammo line on your list and saw that the ammo is 5.7mm DC, which I'd missed before, too... DC = Dual-Core and gives +3 AP (which matches your weapon's AP rating) with no reduction in damage to unarmored targets, but it costs three times as much (equipment book p.31). Do you want standard rounds (with no AP) or do you want to stick with the DC ammo (you can afford up to 786 rounds if you also spend the remaining 2720 Cr)?

(Wouldn't it be nice if the equipment book listed every weapon's stats with standard ammo so that it could be compared more easily, as well as avoiding cases like this where ammo gets bought at the wrong price because nobody noticed it was a specialized type?)

bladerunner_35 skrev: Edit: I just realised that with the campaign being open to anyone we should probably have a page somewhere on OP where we talk about this. I'll see if I can't fix that sometime during the weekend or next week.

Thanks!

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