DMF Online

I have posted what I have proposed to Dave on OP, just so you guys can have a look and see what you think as well. This is not a final version nor approved version yet, mind you, but I do think it shows where I'd like to go with my character... If you guys have any remarks or suggestions, or ideas of how we might have met or otherwise know each other, feel free to make some suggestions/comments...

I see you like Serenity.

jeronimooo skrev:feel free to make some suggestions/comments...

I would advice against using Spirit as a dumpstat/genetic abnormality. Spirit is used to regain your cool after becoming shaken in combat. While you can spend a bennie to automatically unshake our characters will see their fair share of combats so I'd consider it a major drawback. Even if you plan to stay hidden on rooftops with a sniper rifle...

I would probably dump Vigor instead.

Otherwise a cool char.

bladerunner_35 skrev:I see you like Serenity.

ah, noticed that did ya

bladerunner_35 skrev:

jeronimooo skrev:feel free to make some suggestions/comments...

I would advice against using Spirit as a dumpstat/genetic abnormality. Spirit is used to regain your cool after becoming shaken in combat. While you can spend a bennie to automatically unshake our characters will see their fair share of combats so I'd consider it a major drawback. Even if you plan to stay hidden on rooftops with a sniper rifle...

I would probably dump Vigor instead.

Otherwise a cool char.

Isn't vigor more important? I thought spirit was the lesser of 2 evils to use as dumpstat between those 2...

I looked at the hacking rules as well, and got even more confused about the firewall rating and how it's presented. Instead of a bonus on the target number it's a penalty on the attempt. So hacking it won't work.

Spontaneously I agree with jeronimoo that dumping vigor seems worse than spirit, because the former should help you avoid getting shaken in the first place. On second thought I don't remember that that's actually the case, but then I'm hungover and could be a tad forgetful.

About the genetic abnormality . As I made the NPC's on Obsidian I realized that we may have interpreted that penalty incorrectly. What I had thought and done before was for one ability to just become twice as expensive at creation (first level), and then it seemed natural to just not invest in that particular attribute at that time. Another interpretation of "must" is that you have to invest in that ability at the higher price, so that you can't avoid the penalty. That seems more reasonable, if a little worse for all of us 2.0's.

About the character I advise you to to take a look at the Appointed monitor hindrance. That's a great way to handle your handler mechanically, and your need to report etc. From what you've written you already have one. You already have one major hindrance more than you need and get any compensation for, so if you're just ignoring that aspect you could just pile it on there. Otherwise maybe switch out the Vengeful hindrance, as that's probably more general than what you're going for. Your desire for vengeance against the kidnapping of your sister is already covered by your vow, you don't need Vengeful for that. And I'd say your Secret is actually a minor one, since spilling it will screw up some of your business but won't really threaten your life.

The rich edge should also give you +12500 cr/month instead of 15000. I'm also not sure what you mean with the other numbers in that paragraph.

And the fact that you posted a 100k bounty on your sister should not pass us by unnoticed. That's money Almighty wants, and the rest of the group needs. We should investigate on a part time basis.

jeronimooo skrev:Isn't vigor more important? I thought spirit was the lesser of 2 evils to use as dumpstat between those 2...

Savage Worlds does not really have a dumpstat since all traits are useful in various situations. Sprit helps you recover from shaken. Vigor helps you survive. We're not using any soak rules (to help with removing wounds) so combats are deadlier. Neither choice is a given but considering you will likely become shake before you are in danger of dying I would personally choose to dump Vigor if I had to choose.

Don`t forget that you can get buy Cyber ware that can boost an attribute. That can help you get hem to where you want them

Willard skrev:Spontaneously I agree with jeronimoo that dumping vigor seems worse than spirit, because the former should help you avoid getting shaken in the first place. On second thought I don't remember that that's actually the case, but then I'm hungover and could be a tad forgetful.

You are indeed wrong. Vigor is not connected to shaken other than that you can remove shaken and a number of wounds with a soak roll. And as you remember we do not use soak rolls.

Willard skrev:
About the character I advise you to to take a look at the Appointed monitor hindrance. That's a great way to handle your handler mechanically, and your need to report etc. From what you've written you already have one. You already have one major hindrance more than you need and get any compensation for, so if you're just ignoring that aspect you could just pile it on there. Otherwise maybe switch out the Vengeful hindrance, as that's probably more general than what you're going for. Your desire for vengeance against the kidnapping of your sister is already covered by your vow, you don't need Vengeful for that. And I'd say your Secret is actually a minor one, since spilling it will screw up some of your business but won't really threaten your life.

clearly you don't know my customers very well... there is a reason they don't go trough official channels to get what I acquire for them

but I definitely will look in to the hindrances again...

Willard skrev: And the fact that you posted a 100k bounty on your sister should not pass us by unnoticed. That's money Almighty wants, and the rest of the group needs. We should investigate on a part time basis.

the bounty is there indeed, though I thought about letting that part of the story line drag on for a very loooooooong time, maybe even up to a point where I find out that my sister (MIA, presumed death) is actually still alive and faked her own death to get out of stopwatch because of some evil plot she discovered... the true story about the mission where my sister went missing is presumably several levels above my paygrade at Stopwatch...

bladerunner_35 skrev:

jeronimooo skrev:Isn't vigor more important? I thought spirit was the lesser of 2 evils to use as dumpstat between those 2...

Savage Worlds does not really have a dumpstat since all traits are useful in various situations. Sprit helps you recover from shaken. Vigor helps you survive. We're not using any soak rules (to help with removing wounds) so combats are deadlier. Neither choice is a given but considering you will likely become shake before you are in danger of dying I would personally choose to dump Vigor if I had to choose.

see, the ''Vigor helps you survive'' part makes me think I 'd rather survive shaken then die unshaken...

Skill specialization is also something you should look into, with regards to your knowledge skill. Or does that work differently from other skills?

Anyway, on the one hand you describe in the fluff how Serenity keeps an eye on the mega-conglom deals (and a wealthy lifestyle indeed goes well with this). On the other hand your knowledge skills focus on the black market. This is not typically where big corporations make their deals, since they so dominate society they don't need to hide in the alleys. Also in the underworld a flagrantly wealthy lifestyle is less conducive to survival. You may want to think about which side of the market you really want to cover.

Willard skrev: I looked at the hacking rules as well, and got even more confused about the firewall rating and how it's presented. Instead of a bonus on the target number it's a penalty on the attempt.

Right. I can see how that seems a little weird, but it's consistent with the rest of the system in general - in almost all cases, Savage Worlds uses fixed target numbers (either 4 or, in melee, Parry) and applies all modifiers to the roll. The only exceptions I can think of offhand are Tricks and certain combat maneuvers (such as Wild Attack) which give -2 Parry instead of giving opponents a +2 on their Fighting rolls.

Willard skrev: About the genetic abnormality . As I made the NPC's on Obsidian I realized that we may have interpreted that penalty incorrectly. What I had thought and done before was for one ability to just become twice as expensive at creation (first level), and then it seemed natural to just not invest in that particular attribute at that time. Another interpretation of "must" is that you have to invest in that ability at the higher price, so that you can't avoid the penalty. That seems more reasonable, if a little worse for all of us 2.0's.

Your initial interpretation is correct. The "double cost at character creation" basically just forces you to start with one stat at d4, unless you really want to pay for it. If you compare the list of Human 2.0 modifiers to the race creation rules on SWD 22, everything adds up correctly with Genetic Abnormality being the -2 racial ability "One attribute requires two points per step to raise during character generation"

Willard skrev: About the character I advise you to to take a look at the Appointed monitor hindrance.

Agreed and good catch. Mal's background description fit Appointed Monitor so perfectly that I just assumed he'd taken that hindrance and failed to notice it wasn't actually listed.

Willard skrev: Your desire for vengeance against the kidnapping of your sister is already covered by your vow, you don't need Vengeful for that.

I actually don't buy "searching for sister" as a Rich-related Vow. It needs to be something that, if you stop doing it, you'll lose your extra income from Rich until you start doing it again and "I promise to keep searching for my sister" doesn't seem to make much sense in that role.

Willard skrev: The rich edge should also give you +12500 cr/month instead of 15000. I'm also not sure what you mean with the other numbers in that paragraph.

The other numbers appear to be intended to be Occupation income, claiming 11,000 Cr income as a Fixer and 4,000 Cr income as a "low-level agent/informant", which doesn't work for two reasons:

1. You can only have one Occupation.
2. Mal doesn't meet the Requisites for the Fixer (Fixer Edge, Investigator Edge, Smarts d8+, Investigation d8+, Streetwise d8+), Agent (Government Agent Edge, Smarts d6+, Intimidation d6+, Investigation d8+, Notice d6+, Persuasion d6+), or Info Broker (Investigator or Hacker Professional Edge, Smarts d8+, Investigation d8+, Streetwise d8+) Occupations.

God45 skrev:Don`t forget that you can get buy Cyber ware that can boost an attribute. That can help you get hem to where you want them

While you can increase any attribute by up to 2 die steps with augments, those increases give you 2-3 points of Strain and, since we're specifically talking here about Spirit and Vigor, it's important to note that having one of those at d4 means a very low limit before Strain starts to affect you and that attribute increases from augments do not increase your resistance to Strain.

bladerunner_35 skrev:

Willard skrev:Spontaneously I agree with jeronimoo that dumping vigor seems worse than spirit, because the former should help you avoid getting shaken in the first place. On second thought I don't remember that that's actually the case, but then I'm hungover and could be a tad forgetful.

You are indeed wrong. Vigor is not connected to shaken other than that you can remove shaken and a number of wounds with a soak roll. And as you remember we do not use soak rolls.

He's not completely wrong. Increased Vigor means increased Toughness, which increases the amount of damage required to cause Shaken or Wounds. It may be a small effect, but it's something.

Willard skrev:Skill specialization is also something you should look into, with regards to your knowledge skill. Or does that work differently from other skills?

Knowledge works differently than other skills. It always has to have a "specialization", even if the Skill Specialization setting rule is not in play. (More details on SWD 23 and SWD 25.)

Willard skrev:Anyway, on the one hand you describe in the fluff how Serenity keeps an eye on the mega-conglom deals (and a wealthy lifestyle indeed goes well with this). On the other hand your knowledge skills focus on the black market. This is not typically where big corporations make their deals, since they so dominate society they don't need to hide in the alleys. Also in slither underworld a flagrantly wealthy lifestyle is less conducive to survival. You may want to think about which side of the market you really want to cover.

Very good point.

Dave:

After the issue with the Dual Core ammo I have retconned my ammo purchases. I hope that was cool. It's not affecting anything in-game, only my ammo stashes at my shabby apartment.

I've roughly halved all my ammo to be able to afford the DC (25 rounds of 9mm (was 50), 36 rounds of 10mm ACX (was 60) and 500 rounds or 5,7mmDC (was 1000)) which leaves me at 2,210 credits (before the mission) which would land me at 3010 credits in total (800 cr for the mish right?).

Leaving me to seriously considering getting a weapon using cheaper ammo!

Going over my ammo stashes I figured it was easiest to just ignore everything about ammo tokens when buying and loading the weapons. Only when going on a mish is it needed to calculate ammo tokens. Meaning that there's no need to adjust the tokens from 20 to 25. I am not sure you're following me but it makes the whole thing easier to think about for me anyways.

nDervish skrev: Your initial interpretation is correct. The "double cost at character creation" basically just forces you to start with one stat at d4, unless you really want to pay for it. If you compare the list of Human 2.0 modifiers to the race creation rules on SWD 22, everything adds up correctly with Genetic Abnormality being the -2 racial ability "One attribute requires two points per step to raise during character generation"

Glad to hear that, so I don't have to reduce one of Almighty's abilities.

nDervish skrev:I actually don't buy "searching for sister" as a Rich-related Vow. It needs to be something that, if you stop doing it, you'll lose your extra income from Rich until you start doing it again and "I promise to keep searching for my sister" doesn't seem to make much sense in that role.

I realize now that I hadn't actually read the vow or its relation to his rich edge, but just figured that it would be to find his sister no matter what. You have a point.

If it were me I'd try to relate it to feeding Stopwatch with the intel they want, and them giving me enough money to blend in with the executive lifestyle. Killing two birds with one stone (appointed monitor and the rich vow). You could make that work with a major secret and a minor appointed monitor, so that you have the appropriate number of hindrances. The last one, cautious, helps drag the chase out so we don't just go off and rescue her right away.

This approach only works if you direct the knowledge skills towards the corporate sphere, however. If you work in the dark alleys of the underworld it's going to be a lot harder for them to justify sending you all that money. Partly because you don't need it, and partly because it's going to attract the wrong kind of attention. I'm sure there are many other vows you can make to get the money though, if you really want it down there in the gutters.

The need for a vow and the lack of any remaining family makes the old trust fund route difficult, unless there is a will with conditions that the fund manager enforces (possibly through another appointed monitor letting you kill the same two birds with one stone without resorting to Stopwatch).

nDervish skrev:Knowledge works differently than other skills. It always has to have a "specialization", even if the Skill Specialization setting rule is not in play. (More details on SWD 23 and SWD 25.)

I knew it always had to be specialized, but not if you could acquire additional specializations by spending a skill point (as is otherwise the case) or if you had to start from scratch with the new one.

Re-reading SWD 25 tells me that the latter is the case, and that I should reconsider Aiko's skill choices.

bladerunner_35 skrev:After the issue with the Dual Core ammo I have retconned my ammo purchases. I hope that was cool.

Totally cool.

bladerunner_35 skrev: I've roughly halved all my ammo to be able to afford the DC (25 rounds of 9mm (was 50), 36 rounds of 10mm ACX (was 60) and 500 rounds or 5,7mmDC (was 1000)) which leaves me at 2,210 credits (before the mission) which would land me at 3010 credits in total (800 cr for the mish right?).

Yep! I'll update my copy of Ryder's inventory tomorrow, then do a fresh export of his details to OP.

bladerunner_35 skrev: Going over my ammo stashes I figured it was easiest to just ignore everything about ammo tokens when buying and loading the weapons. Only when going on a mish is it needed to calculate ammo tokens. Meaning that there's no need to adjust the tokens from 20 to 25. I am not sure you're following me but it makes the whole thing easier to think about for me anyways.

I follow you, I just take the opposite approach - I think it's easier to deal with ammo purely in terms of tokens and never as individual rounds.

Willard skrev: If it were me I'd try to relate it to feeding Stopwatch with the intel they want, and them giving me enough money to blend in with the executive lifestyle. Killing two birds with one stone (appointed monitor and the rich vow).

Actually, if you're going to go that route with it, there's the option of dropping Rich and taking the Government Agent professional edge and Agent Occupation. The Government Agent edge (which works just as well for Stopwatch, despite the name) allows you to requisition up to 15,000 Cr of equipment per Rank (15k at Novice, 30k at Seasoned, etc.) whenever you're on a mission for them. (This equipment must be returned at the end of the mission and is likely to be what they think you need rather than exactly what you want, but, on the other hand, Stopwatch is sure to have good access to military-grade gear and the ability to arrange short-term Category 4-R or 5-R weapons permits to go with anything they issue.)

Plus you need to actually take the Government Agent edge in that scenario, so dropping Rich may be necessary anyhow, simply to free up an edge for it.

Willard skrev:

nDervish skrev:Knowledge works differently than other skills. It always has to have a "specialization", even if the Skill Specialization setting rule is not in play. (More details on SWD 23 and SWD 25.)

I knew it always had to be specialized, but not if you could acquire additional specializations by spending a skill point (as is otherwise the case) or if you had to start from scratch with the new one.

Re-reading SWD 25 tells me that the latter is the case, and that I should reconsider Aiko's skill choices.

Oh, yeah, good point. They're not really specializations for Knowledge, since each one has to be bought completely independently. They're just written similarly in skill lists.

Actually, if you're going to go that route with it, there's the option of dropping Rich and taking the Government Agent professional edge and Agent Occupation. The Government Agent edge (which works just as well for Stopwatch, despite the name) allows you to requisition up to 15,000 Cr of equipment per Rank (15k at Novice, 30k at Seasoned, etc.) whenever you're on a mission for them. (This equipment must be returned at the end of the mission and is likely to be what they think you need rather than exactly what you want, but, on the other hand, Stopwatch is sure to have good access to military-grade gear and the ability to arrange short-term Category 4-R or 5-R weapons permits to go with anything they issue.)

what happens if and when the equipment is destroyed or used up?

Looking at the Genetic Abnormality, wouldn't it almost be better to start with a D4 in strenght and modify that one up to 6 trough augments? and have that as GA? Then I could start with a D6 in both Vigor and Spirit...

What do you guys think?

Yeah, absolutely. I don't see why you'd need strength at all, really.

jeronimooo skrev:what happens if and when the equipment is destroyed or used up?

As long as it's in the line of duty, it's no big deal. James Bond might occasionally get a brief lecture from M (or more likely Q) over equipment that was lost or destroyed on a mission, but that's about it.

If you can't make a case that there was a good reason for the loss, then you might end up having to pay for a replacement, but I'd be lenient about that in general (it is an Edge after all, so it should be beneficial to you) and would also warn you if I saw a situation coming that could cause a problem with your agency.

Willard skrev:Yeah, absolutely. I don't see why you'd need strength at all, really.

Carrying capacity is the main reason I can think of and, if that becomes an issue, Advanced Muscle Augmentation and a Reinforced Exoskeleton (I suspect that really should be Endoskeleton...) will take you from d4 Strength to d8 with increased encumbrance limits (+1 Agility and +50% Strength/Vigor for purposes of calculating inventory sizes), which should be plenty, at a cost of 4 Strain.

So, yeah, taking Strength for Mal's Genetic Abnormality makes sense to me.

Right,

I made a few modifications to Mal, after the discussion here. Mainly changed traits and skills to get the minimum reqs for the government agent edge.
I dropped driving sill competely together with Underworld knowledge to free up some skill points, and changed black market to corporate knowledge.
I dropped the connections edge in favor of the rich edge. outlook to develop that edge though...

I also changed a few details in the backstory.

Does anyone have an idea about how they would know Mal?

Melissa could perhaps introduce and vouch for you on the next job. The team is one man short since Ryder...needs to take care of his dad.